Coronavirus, The Global Cable Coming Back from COVID-19 with Charlie Dent

May 1, 2020
By Perry World House | The Global Cable

This week's episode features Charlie Dent, who spent seven terms representing the 15th Congressional District of Pennsylvania on Capitol Hill. Alongside being a Visiting Fellow at Perry World House, he serves as a senior policy adviser at DLA Piper and as a political analyst for CNN.

On The Global Cable, Dent talks to our host John Gans about his own recent bout with COVID-19; how Congress is responding to the pandemic, compared to past crises like the financial crash of 2008; and the issues ahead as the U.S. looks at how to hold a presidential election during a pandemic.

Listen on Apple Podcasts | Libsyn | Spotify | Stitcher

Music & Produced by Tre Hester.

Franklin Few

On every episode of The Global Cable, we ask our guests the 'Franklin Few' - an updated version of a questionnaire used by Penn founder Benjamin Franklin. Here are Charlie Dent's answers.

Someone you'd like to meet: Benjamin Franklin, founder of the University of Pennsylvania; Winston Churchill, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom during World War Two; and Abraham Lincoln, 16th President of the United States.

A book, movie, or anything else you'd recommend to listeners:

Someone who's recently done something that deserves praise or attention: All frontline healthcare providers and key workers.

Something Penn and Penn students can do to be of service to the world: Finding ways to support frontline healthcare workers, such as volunteering to support contact tracing and testing.

Listen now.

Transcript

Charlie Dent [00:00:08] This feels like a combination of crisis of fear, of health. And of course, an economic crisis all wrapped into one catastrophic event. And what's different about this situation is that this is so much more pervasive. You know, 9/11, as horrible as it was, and I came in Congress shortly after 9/11. I came in 2004. But what was different on 9/11? We saw what happened.

[00:00:41] The financial center was attacked in New York. The Pentagon was hit, that crash in the field in Pennsylvania. We saw what happened. And of course, it did drive us into a recession, but most of us could still function, right? If you were in the financial district, you were thrown out of whack. And if you're the Pentagon, I mean, we were disrupted, no doubt significantly. But many people would still go about their lives and go about their business.

John Gans [00:01:16] Welcome to the Global Cable, a podcast from Perry World House at the University of Pennsylvania, where we discuss the world's most important issues with the people who work on them. I'm John Gans, Director of Communications and Research here at Perry World House. On this week's episode. We speak to former Congressman Charlie Dent.

[00:01:32] Dent served seven terms on Capitol Hill, representing the 15th Congressional District of Pennsylvania in the U.S. House of Representatives. Nowadays, he's a visiting fellow at Perry World House and also serves as a senior policy adviser at DLA Piper and as a political analyst for CNN. Today, Dent talks to us about his recent bout with coronavirus and about Congress' response to the COVID-19 crisis, the prospect for additional bipartisan collaboration between Democrats and Republicans, and about how the United States can hold a presidential election during a pandemic. Charlie, welcome to the Global Cable.

[00:02:10] Well, as some may have seen in the news, though it's been a pretty busy news couple months here, we were sorry to hear that you came down with coronavirus. How are you feeling?

Charlie Dent [00:02:24] Yeah. Thanks, John. I'm actually feeling pretty well. Mercifully, thankfully, my symptoms were relatively mild. They were unpleasant, but they were mild. I experienced a slight cough, which I thought initially was just a slight cough. Didn't think a lot about it. Didn't want to overthink it. Then I developed some pretty, very acute backaches. And so I had about three or four really bad nights of sleep. I just couldn't get comfortable, my back was hurting and I panicked. An occasional back ache in the past, who hasn't if you're a guy over the age of 50. And so I had some back aches that were very, very uncomfortable.

[00:03:07] Chills, sweats. Never had a fever. Never had any respiratory or breathing issues or cardiac issues. I never had any of that. But the chills, the sweats, and probably the most persistent symptom was the fatigue. I was chronically fatigued and I was tired. I usually like to work out and exercise, but I had no energy to work out or exercise for a few weeks. And I could just see something was wrong. I was sleeping more and there was a feeling of lethargy. But the good news is that seems to all be behind me.

[00:03:42] I was tested. That was another issue that I learned here. The testing. I wasn't sure if I should get tested, but I called my physician and said, hey, you know, I just don't feel right. You know, I said,  I've had bronchitis and I felt much worse than I'm feeling now. I said I was on my back coming back from Africa once after a really acute case of bronchitis. I said I've had the flu. And frankly, those symptoms in some respects were more uncomfortable. And that, you know, it's hard to know. The cough was worse. I was on my back sleeping and much more congested. What was different about this was this was much more persistent. It just didn't seem to go away. And even though the symptoms weren't as acute. So that's why I talked to my doctor and she recommended that I get over to get a test. And it really took me a few minutes to get a test. Believe it or not, I called the place on that same day. It was March 31st. I called them. They said come in at a time before 8:00pm. I got there at 7:30pm and there was no line. I went into the building and they put the swab up my nose, which really wasn't as bad as they make it out to be. They show that on television. It took all of five seconds.

[00:04:59] And then they said it would take about I think eight to 14 days to get my results. I ended up getting them back on Saturday. So it was four days. I got tested on Tuesday night and I received the test results on Saturday. So it was pretty quick. So I tested positive and basically stayed home. That's what I've done and what I'm still doing. I'm working from home. And like I said, the energy levels are back and we're good to go.

John Gans [00:05:29] Well, we're glad to hear that. And you're our first guest with coronavirus. We've talked about it a fair amount, but you're definitely the first one we've had on who's tested positive. So, you obviously have served in state government and federal government in Congress during some pretty big issues, during some pretty big crises. What's your take on how the pandemic has changed and what's all its impacts in terms of health economics in the United States? And what's most surprised you about the past, I guess, six, seven weeks?

Charlie Dent [00:06:07] Yeah this event, I've often said, feels more like a—I wrote an op-ed for CNN—this feels like kind of a combination of both. Crisis of fear, of health. And of course, an economic crisis all wrapped into one catastrophic event. And what's different about this situation is that this is so much more pervasive. 9/11, as horrible as it was, and I came in the Congress shortly after 9/11. I came in in 2004. But what was different on 9/11?  We saw what happened.

[00:06:46] The financial center was attacked in New York. The Pentagon was hit. You know, the crash the field in Pennsylvania. We saw what happened. And of course, it did drive us into a recession. But most of us could still function, right? I mean, if you were in the financial district, you were thrown out of whack. And if you were the Pentagon, I mean, we were disrupted, no doubt, significantly. But many people would still go about their lives and go about their business. Even with this horrible event hanging over the country. But we can go about it. But this is different because it's so pervasive. Everybody more or less—nearly everybody—seems to be shut down outside of the health care sector. You know, logistics, grocers, and certain essential businesses. I mean, many people are literally shut in and that's what's different. It's pervasiveness of it, it's everywhere. And so I'm not sure we'll ever seeing like this again.  And of course, the economic impacts here are so much more pronounced.

Feels a little bit—the other thing I've often compared it to, I served during the financial crisis of 2008. I just remember serving with Hank Paulson who was the Treasury secretary at the time, and he came to Congress in September of '08 and said, "I need 700 billion." This was on a Thursday, "I need 700 billion and I need it by Monday." And that's pretty much what the bill said in three pages. Give me 700 billion and give it to me by Monday. And so a lot of us at that time, we were very upset. You know, we didn't like being in this situation. A lot of finger pointing, particularly at the big banks and Wall Street. And I supported the legislation in the end, the Troubled Asset Relief Program. But there was a lot of acrimony at that time. A lot of bitterness. Anger. And what's different? The villain for many people was Wall Street. Right now, I mean, we realize this is maybe an act of God, although if you read some of that The Washington Post story that this may have been a legend, that it could have been at accident at some lab in China as opposed to an outbreak. But who knows? But at least people understand that this is a pandemic. It's a disease. And the Congress, in many respects, has responded, I think, better to this crisis than they did to the financial crisis. In this crisis, everybody realized that, hey, this is a time you have to be ruthlessly pragmatic and do things that you would ordinarily never do just to stabilize and secure our population.

John Gans [00:09:36] What do you think, looking at all this change, what do you think will be the most enduring change? What do you think we're gonna be dealing with for some time to come? And this will post sometime in April of 2020, what do you think six months from now, a year from now, we're still dealing with from this time period?

Charlie Dent [00:09:56] Well, hopefully in about a year from now, I'm hoping that we'll have the vaccine. And that will obviously help the situation considerably. That would be an enormous help. But between now and then, I suspect the way we go about our social interactions will change. You know, it seems to me that, we're all shut down and most of us are shut in. You know, we expect that there's going to be some type of reopening. The debate right now is not so much how, but when. And so we're debating when. Let's assume that we do this. Then we have to get to the "how," how do we go about it? I suspect you're gonna see us ease back into something closer to normal. But as we were chatting before we came on the podcast, all restaurants have to have greater social distancing practices. Those continue. There's a lot of concern that we will see fewer, larger gatherings. Certainly, perhaps international travel will be curtailed substantially. And particularly to the developing world where health care, the health systems and health infrastructure is much less than in the developed world. So, I mean, these are the kinds of issues that you're gonna be thinking about. Do you? I mean, how do we interact? I mean, I don't know. We're going to greet people with a kiss on the cheek or a handshake? You know, I don't know. I think that those are the questions that we have not yet answered. And for those of us who've traveled to Asia, you know, it was not uncommon before the pandemic to see people walking around Tokyo or any other major city wearing masks, which we always as Westerners thought was kind of a bit odd. But nowadays, that might become the new normal, that will most of us will be wearing masks. And so bottom line is, John, I don't think that we return to the old normal quickly. Phase back in and a lot of things we're doing now in terms of social distancing practices will likely continue until most of us feel comfortable that we're not going to get seriously ill.

John Gans [00:12:16] Speaking of unique traditions and certainly unique ways of dealing with people and backslapping and handshaking, you served in Congress for, I guess what was it, 14 years in your state?

Charlie Dent [00:12:32] Yeah, 14 years.

John Gans [00:12:33] And so the U.S. Congress has been playing a role in trying to help steer the response to the pandemic both some ways on the on the health side, but certainly on the economic side. What are your thoughts on Congress' response to the crisis so far? What has it done well? What do you think it could have done differently?

Charlie Dent [00:12:54] Well, I actually think in many respects that despite some fits and starts and some of the usual finger-pointing and hand-wringing, that they actually have responded at warp speed. Right now, they're about to pass their fourth bill, called phase four, that has passed the Senate and is awaiting consideration in the House I think later today. And so what's happening, though, at warp speed, they have passed a 2.2 trillion dollar relief package. Wow. I mean, you think about that 2.2 trillion, that's about half of the federal budget. And they did it on a unanimous consent or voice vote in both chambers. Remarkable, I mean, that they were able to do this so quickly. And when you pass bills of that magnitude, there are gonna be errors and there are gonna be mistakes. And when you're moving this much money out the door so quickly, there are going to be problems. There will be waste, fraud, and abuse, I learned that during Katrina. I was in during Katrina. John, I served during that. We passed a lot of funding right then—60 billion immediately—to address the crisis. You know, what I learned is the faster you move the money out the door, the more likely there is to be abuse. But you have to move the money quickly because there are people who are struggling. They're in great need. There's an immediacy to what they need. But if you would do more things to put controls on, what you would find is that the money wouldn't get to the people who need it immediately. So that's the dilemma they're facing. But overall, I give Congress pretty high marks in both chambers—House and Senate—that they were able to get this stuff done as quickly as they have. And of course, now the challenge is going to be in the implementation of these programs and also the execution and the delivery of the funding.

John Gans [00:15:19] Yeah, it's interesting. So what do you think as you look at Washington right now and do you think that it is prepared? One of the things that I always found fascinating was during and after the financial recession and the Financial Relief Act and the TARP Act and all those of things was that there seemed to have been surprise at the strength of the political response to that. Do you think that Washington is thinking about the political and the politics of how people are going to respond both to the pandemic itself and the response to the pandemic?

Charlie Dent [00:16:01] Yeah, I think my sense is, on the political side, that most Americans are not going to blame say the president for the pandemic. I think they realize this originated in China and it got over here. But I think they will judge him and other elected officials, frankly, on how they respond to the pandemic. So I think that's the reality of our situation. And what's interesting, too, is because as you watch these daily briefings from governors in New York and Michigan and elsewhere and of course, the daily presidential task force briefing, what I've noticed is that with at least a presidential briefing the president comes out, he'll say a lot of things, many things that at times contradict what his professional, medical, and scientific team are saying. You got Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci, with whom I worked during the Zika and the Ebola crises. And then, of course, the CDC, Dr. Redfield. And so on the one hand, you have the professionals out there. And I get the sense that the American public is really listening very closely to the medical people. And they say, okay, that's the real information that we need. And then there's the president, who at times tries to be perhaps overly optimistic. I think in his presentation, of course, he contradicts the scientific community and he gets political and he starts battling with the governors and that sort of thing. So there's that side of it. So this is kind of interesting and I think most politicians right now are trying not to politicize this pandemic and the response too much right now while we're in the midst of it. I mean, there's going to be an after action analysis.

And that's when I think a lot of the political finger-pointing will begin. The question is, when do we get through the worst of this? And when we start getting back to our normal lives, or more normalized I should say, that's when I suspect more and more of the political posturing will occur. I kind of feel like you're still in the middle of a fight here. And this is not the time to judge how we've gone about the fight. But we have to actually get through it first. And so I think that's part of it. But the politics, you know, you see each—the Trump campaign and the Biden campaign—I should say, maybe it's their allies who are putting up really interesting ads. Trump, I think, initially was trying to tie Biden to China, which I thought was kind of a mistake given the president's own comments on China. And then, you know, the Biden team comes back with a very strong ad saying the same thing about Trump. You know, he was too soft on China when it mattered. And so you're seeing some initial shots across the bow on some of these ads that are I think running in a very limited basis or online. But I think that those ads maybe are a good forecaster of what we're going to see in the fall campaign. And again, you know, what's the fall campaign going to look like? Hopefully,  you'll be able to have something closer to a normal campaign, maybe later in the summer and into the fall. But again, we're in an unprecedented time in an uncharted territory. So in some respects, your guess is as good as mine, John.

John Gans [00:19:58] You know, I'm going to do my math again. You've run for election, what, 17, 14 times?

Charlie Dent [00:20:08] 13 times.

John Gans [00:20:09] And you've never lost.

Charlie Dent [00:20:10] Yeah.

John Gans [00:20:12] So what do you think, just nuts and bolts, this means for actually holding elections in November 2020? So, we're still in the fight and we're going to be in the fight for a while. And there's some suggestions that we could be in another wave of this in the fall. How does an election even happen in this country in a way that's both fair, seen as legitimate, and actually reflects the will of people who wish they could vote? Whether they can or not will be remains to be seen. How does that happen in a country like the United States, which is decentralized election authority?

Charlie Dent [00:20:55] Well, I suspect that we're going to have to see a lot more mail in voting, at least through the pandemic. And I've always said don't use this pandemic as a way to make permanent changes to law on any number of issues. In other words, you're doing things now that you would ordinarily never do. That's not to say some of these things shouldn't continue after the fact. But I would sunset many of these things that have been done. You know, when the pandemic is over, then you can revisit whether or not you want to continue them. But mail-in voting. Many states don't allow it. Pennsylvania until recently really didn't permit it other than for absentee voting if you're out of town that day or if you're sick or you were unable to get to the polls physically. So I think you have to see more mail-in voting. I've come to that realization even before the pandemic. But we want to make sure it's done right. I mean, I watch California. It takes them forever and a day to count their votes out there with mail-ins. And I've often felt that, you know, you move to mail-in voting and because of the pandemic, we're gonna have to do it on a much more robust basis. Bottom line end of story, you're gonna have to do it now. There's no way around that. So I suggest that you do an expanded mail in voting and then see how it goes. Now I would also recommend too that election should occur on a date certain. That has always been my view. And I think it would be a terrible thing if we got rid of polling places. I think that's an important part of our tradition. But I understand for the pandemic, particularly this primary season, we may have to just do mail-in voting for these primaries and not have in-person voting. As hard as that is to say, in Pennsylvania, we pushed our primary from late April until June 2nd. And other states have done the same. And we saw what Wisconsin did. I thought rather recklessly and foolishly, they conducted a primary about a week or two ago for some political advantage that really ended up backfiring. But they made a mistake. So I think you're going see mail-in voting, bottom line. You're going to have to do it at least through the pandemic and maybe for the November election.

John Gans [00:23:31] You know, it will end. We don't have time to get into all the ramifications of that. But, obviously, there's lags. People mail vote ballots at different times, which means their ballots achieved by different things. And this is such a fast charging, as much as as little as many of us are doing, the actual events are moving so quickly. So it will have fascinating implications.

Charlie Dent [00:24:00] John, just one thing on that, though. Also, if you do this for the fall, if we were to do mail-in voting for the fall I hope they could tally those votes quickly. Like I said, I worry, I watch California. And it seems that they take so long to get a count. I'm worried about that.

John Gans [00:24:20] And if I could ask one follow up, which is I think the world has been looking at the United States. And I think there's a lot to be disappointed in in how the United States has handled the pandemic. I think a lot of many of those abroad and even many of those here in the country forget America has some deep rooted traditions in terms of federal power, in terms of limitations on freedom, and those things that people forget about. Our culture and our traditions are somewhat unique. But what do you think the world will be looking at in terms of the election in 2020? Are they going to be looked at? You know, I think the legitimacy of our democracy is one of the things that still does carry weight around the world. And what do you think the world will make of an election as it deals with coronavirus?

Charlie Dent [00:25:19] Good question. I think what a lot of people are looking for, I think that the world is looking for, I think what most Americans are looking for, I said is some sense of stability. And in some level of order. Right now, and I said this before the pandemic too at least in the United States in terms of the Trump presidency, it's been very disruptive. Now, some people think that it's terrific. Others thinks it's disruption for the sake of disruption and that it creates chaos. And so they want to get back to something closer to what they thought was more normal. Now, I've always said you can't go back to where you were. But even before the pandemic and we're not going to go back to the same order pre-Trump. We have to go to a better place, but it may not be the same place where we were. And I think that's maybe what the world is looking for right now, you know, leadership to determine what that new normal will be and who will be the people who will be able to deliver that best. Will it be the populist candidates that we've seen rise in places like Brazil and in Hungary and certainly United States? Or will it be something more of a traditional politician, you think, maybe like a Joe Biden in our country? And there are obviously people in other countries who fit that bill as well. So I think that's what we're kind of looking at. You know, are we going to continue with this kind of insurgent populism or are we going to go back to something a bit more traditional and arguably more stable.

John Gans [00:26:59] That's excellent. Three hundred years ago, Ben Franklin, who knew a thing or two about politics, elections, and the American culture as nascent as it was, came up with a questionnaire that he used in conversations with fellow Philadelphians about global affairs. So we've updated a bit to anchor our podcast here. And so I thought I'd ask you a few questions. These are short questions. They can have short answers or long answers depending on your mood. So the first we always ask is who would you most like to meet today and why?

Charlie Dent [00:27:36] Well, since we're with the University of Pennsylvania and in Philadelphia, I guess we should start with the university's founder, Ben Franklin. Since you mentioned him. Because he was, of all the founding fathers in many respects, he's my favorite just because he was such a renaissance man in his own right—politically, scientifically, medically. He was just a man for all seasons, a man who could do anything. And an inventor, incredible curiosity. So I think he would be somebody that I would certainly love to meet. I've always said I would have loved to have met Winston Churchill too. A man who, throughout his life, lived a remarkable life, made serious mistakes in his life. But on the big question of his day and his moment, he got it right. And he really got it right with respect to the rise of Nazism and how to deal with it. And so whatever mistakes he made, he'll always be remembered for what he accomplished before and during the Second World War. So that's somebody I thought I'd always really wanted to meet, of course. You know, again, I'm a recovering politician. So, everybody wants to meet Abraham Lincoln. Arguably the man who saved the nation and certainly led us from America's original sin of slavery and ended it. And so that's somebody else I always would have liked to have met.

John Gans [00:29:27] All popular picks in the podcast, I'd say those are some we hear more often than others. So you've been obviously at home for a while. You've been lying low for about a month. Is there anything that you have read? Books, articles, anything you've seen, movies, films, documentaries, or listening to that you recommend for people who are laying low?

Charlie Dent [00:29:52] Sure. Books that I've read recently, but not during the pandemic, I've read "The Hill to Die On" by Jake Sherman and Anna Palmer. That's the book about Capitol Hill. I kind of read a lot of those books and I also read books that I'm in. So that's one. A book I'm reading right now, and I've been moving slower than I should be, is "American Carnage" by Tim Alberta. Again, rise of the Tea Party and all the machinations of Congress. I read a book too, "Team of Vipers" about a guy who worked in the Trump administration and I thought was really good. And not just because I'm in that book, too. But the discovery, you know, the infighting of the White House. That's another book that I have I've read. And I'm also looking at a few others going forward too. There's an Erik Larson book I want to read, his title I just forgot.

Charlie Dent [00:30:52] So that's where I am on the reading side. On the movie side, during this pandemic I regrettably watched "Tiger King." I got to tell you, that show, I never felt any nausea while I was sick except when I was watching that show. It just kind of struck me as all that's wrong with America. I guess it was sort of a reality show. But it was some gun toting polygamist who just kind of flips, and he ran for governor of Oklahoma, flipping his middle finger at authority in any way he could. And, you know, he just had terrible vendettas. The abuse of these beautiful animals, these large cats, big cats. I just regret watching that one. Then I did watch a show called "Fleabag," which was actually pretty funny. It was a British show and I thought it was pretty good. You know, children shouldn't watch that one. And I also watched "Killing Eve," which is also on BBC. But I think most people should be able to watch that one.

John Gans [00:32:17] So next question to ask is, this is taking on sort of added resonance, but do you see any individuals in the United States or elsewhere who's done something of late that deserves praise or attention or imitation? Is there anybody out there who's doing something you think is worthy of paying attention to?

Charlie Dent [00:32:42] Yeah. Not so much one person, but the whole class of people. I mean, all these people who are working in our health care system right now. All these frontline health care providers, nurses, orderlies, doctors, physician assistants, all these people are just doing extraordinary work under exceedingly difficult circumstances and in many cases with limited equipment to help them do their jobs. And so they're putting themselves at great risk. I would just say these people who are working in health care. And also, these sanitation workers, all these people who are going about cleaning up, wiping down counters, spraying everything in the grocery stores, these people that you might not ordinarily pay a whole lot of attention to. I haven't been to the grocery store for about a while because I was ill. I still haven't gone.

But these people who are going in there every day, the checkout clerks and those folks who are literally, you know, making sure that these stores are as clean as they can possibly be for all of us. And not just in the grocery stores, but everywhere. The sanitation workers. Just in my own city here, I'm sheltered here in Allentown. And I see all these garbage sanitation workers, the people pick up the garbage. And by the way, we're all producing a heck of a lot more garbage I think because we're all in the house. Right. And we're doing our thing and these people are working. So, that's what I would say. I certainly think on an individual basis, I certainly think a guy like a Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx have really done a very good job of trying to communicate real information to the American people. In a very professional basis. So I would say those folks are doing a lot. I'm a contributor at CNN. And, you know, because of that, I haven't been on television as much because of the pandemic. But, you know, Sanjay Gupta is out there.And also from his perch, trying to talk in ways that reassure people and just give them really good facts and information so that they don't over or under react to the pandemic.

John Gans [00:34:57] That's great. And then the last question is, is there anything that Penn or Penn students can do to be of use to the world right now? Well, it's an amazing moment in history. And it's an amazing moment for humanity and the United States as well. Is there anything that we can be doing or we can encourage students to think about as they deal with all the changes they're dealing with?

Charlie Dent [00:35:22] Yeah, I'd say do what you can. And obviously at Penn, you've got a world class health system at Penn. And a school that's so strong in the life sciences, a leader in medical research, I would recommend to people like for me, I'm going to donate my plasma. I was sick, but maybe it's something as simple as donating blood or plasma or whatever you can do. I would actually inquire with some of the folks in the Penn Health Systems about what exactly is the best way. Penn students, can support those frontline workers. I suspect we're gonna need an army of people testing, taking swabs. We're going to need that at some point in a very big way. And I think that's something that college students will be able to do. I heard a suggestion the other day we get these fourth-year medical students to start putting the swabs up people's noses. And I thought, well, that's a waste. You should have those people going out treating patients. You don't need to use a doctor to take the swab or medical students, you should get these kids coming out of college and get them engaged, give them their first job in that sense, so there are going to be opportunities for them to help, because as I said, I think we're going to have to really robustly test and track—trace and track—all these people. That's going to require real people to get on the phones and interact with people in a very robust and aggressive way.

John Gans [00:37:07] Well, thank you so much, Charlie, for joining us. We are glad you're feeling better. And certainly hope that you continue to take care. And we look forward to having you back at Perry World House in the fall. So thank you so much, Charlie, for joining us today on the Global Cable.

Charlie Dent [00:37:22] Thanks, John. Great being with you and everybody from Penn.