Diplomacy, Power & Security, Technology, The Global Cable Standing Up for Democracy with John Kerry

Welcome to Season 3 of The Global Cable, a podcast from Perry World House at the University of Pennsylvania. We’re starting out on our new season with a new host in John Gans, our director of communications and research, a new format inspired by Penn’s own founding father Ben Franklin, and an exciting new lineup of guests.

Our first episode is a conversation with John Kerry, U.S. Secretary of State from 2013 to 2017. Kerry shares his thoughts on the dangers of a changing world order and how technology has changed the nature of diplomacy; tells us what he packs in his suitcase when he’s traveling around the world; and reveals who in history he’d most like to meet. 

Music & Produced by Tre Hester.

Transcript

John Kerry [00:00:04] Everything I did as Secretary of State was geared towards trying to strengthen the rule of law and the adherence to these values. We pushed for human rights. We worked hard to transition people to democracy. We stayed deeply engaged with our allies and friends because we knew there was strength in NATO and strength in the Western values that we were trying to bring to governance, the openness, the transparency, the accountability.

John Gans [00:00:36] Welcome to Season 3 of The Global Cable, a podcast from Perry World House at the University of Pennsylvania, where we discuss the world's most pressing issues with the people who work on them. To launch this new season, we've got a new host and a new format.  I'm John Gans, the director of communications and research here at Perry World House. And I'll be with you for a year of conversations with some of the fascinating people who spend time at the University of Pennsylvania this year.

To ensure the conversations are as fun and exciting as possible, we're relying on Penn's own Ben Franklin. More than 300 years ago, Franklin, who knew a few things about diplomacy, statecraft, technology and government, developed a questionnaire he used for conversations among fellow Philadelphians interested in current affairs. The original list had almost 30 questions, so we've shorten the questionnaire to a few questions, what we're calling the Franklin Few, and updated it for use today.

Our first responder to the Franklin Few and first guest this season is none other than John Kerry, former U.S. Secretary of State and U.S. Senator. Secretary Kerry has been involved in global affairs his entire life. The son of a diplomat, he served two tours in Vietnam, was elected to the Senate in 1984, and was the Democratic Party's nominee for president in 2004. He served as 68th Secretary of State for four years from 2013 to 2017. Secretary Kerry was at Perry World House for our Fall 2019 Colloquium, where we explored how emerging technologies are rewiring the global order. In this conversation, we talk about how technology has changed diplomacy; what everyone should pack in their suitcases; and how Penn students can be of service to the country and the world. This is The Global Cable. Welcome, Secretary Kerry.

John Gans [00:02:23] Secretary Kerry, as the post-World War Two global order strains to keep up with today's changing world, what is the one thing you did as Secretary of State to help strengthen it?

John Kerry [00:02:34] Well, I think the most critical thing in the aftermath of World War Two, there were several big choices made. One was to bring the world together and create an institution that would help to share responsibility and create a set of values and standards which could avoid the possibility of war and the opposite of fascism, and oppression, and communism, and so forth. Really, rule of law was the basis of it. And we created the United Nations, we created the International Criminal Court. We created the IMF, the international financial system, Bretton Woods. We did this framework because we knew that we needed to have a set of values imbued in the rules. We absolutely had to have rules. That gets taken for granted today, in too many ways. You have a lot of people out there who are pushing back against relationships with other countries and trying to pretend you can go it alone. And it's very dangerous, because it brings back some of the weaknesses that brought the war on in the first place, nationalism, authoritarianism. And so we're in a fight to remind people. I think we'll get there.

 With respect to things that we worked on or I'm proud of, I think that everything I did as Secretary of State was geared towards trying to strengthen the rule of law and the adherence to these values. We pushed for human rights, we worked hard to transition people to democracy, we stayed deeply engaged with our allies and friends because we knew there was strength in NATO and strength in the Western values that we were trying to bring to governance, the openness, the transparency, the accountability. And we fought against corruption, to you know, to try to open up countries. We worked on AIDS in Africa with the emergency program of the president. We tried to end wars where we saw them, whether it was working with the rebels in Colombia to make sure that we could get that war -  after 50 years - settled, or working with Palestinians and the Israelis to try to resolve that, or Syria.

John Kerry [00:04:59] Conflict resolution is a critical component of diplomacy. And we worked very hard at that. We got the chemical weapons out of Syria. The chemical weapons that were declared, which was the first time in history, that chemical weapons, that weapons of mass destruction had been removed from an area of conflict during the conflict. And it was significant enough that the Nobel Peace Prize went to the entity that we picked to actually carry that out. So I think that across the board, the work we did in Asia to contain China, in the South China Sea, to contain Russia and Putin, once he had taken back Crimea from moving to Kiev and trying to take over the whole of Ukraine. We were active, we were engaged, we were reinforcing alliances. We were building the relationships between countries and we respected them. We didn't run around the world criticizing and destroying relationships, and praising authoritarian dictators. We stood up for democracy and we stood by the values of our country. I think that we have to get back to that. And I'm confident the world will be better when we do.

John Gans [00:06:21] You're just talking about some of the diplomacy you did as Secretary of State, and you write in your book about how your father was a diplomat, and then you became Secretary of State. I'm wondering how diplomacy has changed over that time since your father's days, and how you see it changing in the future?

John Kerry [00:06:37] Diplomacy has changed, literally in the difference between black and white. I mean, it's just unbelievably different. For instance, back in those days, George Kennan would go to Russia and he'd travel there by boat, and it would take weeks. You'd send mail by courier, it would take a month or something before you got an instruction or something came back. You were left to your own deliberation, your own instincts, your own wisdom. And amazing things happened in that regard. John Adams negotiating a loan from the Dutch for the United States really helped win the War of Independence. And he wasn't getting day-to-day instructions or anything. So diplomacy was free-wheeling and slower. Relationships mattered much more. The certain levels of diplomats' engagement was dictated by where they were in the pecking order. Nowadays, you have technology that gives you, I mean, I can't remember how many times we would have a video conference with the President of the United States from Vienna, debriefing him on what we had done and what the choices were, and we'd have active conversations about the negotiation.

So it happens faster, sometimes instantaneously. It has reduced the engagement of many people at many levels, because so much can be done quickly in secure telephone call or videoconference. You instantaneously jump into an airplane, and seven hours later, you can be sitting face to face with six other foreign ministers and dealing with a crisis.

John Gans [00:08:25] Well, you've mentioned some of your travels there, whether it's Vienna or anywhere else. And, you know, we noticed you used to take your guitar on the campaign trail and on your travels as Secretary of State. And so for our students who travel around the world, why did you bring your guitar and what else do you always travel with? What's your sort of go-to in your go bag, I guess?

John Kerry [00:08:45] Well, I travel with my guitar because it's great relaxation. It's a wonderful way to take your mind and put it into something that is pleasing and gets you focused, because you have to really focus on what you're doing, if you're going to do it. And I play for myself, I don't play for other people. I just try to play, try to learn something new here and there. Most of the time when I was traveling with the guitar, I was really trying to hang on to what I had because I didn't have time to learn new or, you know...It just takes a lot of time. If you can then try to pretend you're half proficient, I'm not even sure I got to half. It's great relaxation and I enjoyed it. And, you know, other than that, you know, I just made sure that I had a sufficient amount of underwear and ties and shirts. That was it.

John Gans [00:09:35] That sounds about right. Now, I was telling you earlier, you know, Ben, you mentioned him in your remarks in the World Forum. Ben Franklin, one of Penn's first trustees and a Philadelphia citizen and not a bad diplomat in his day. Almost 300 years ago, he developed a questionnaire he used in conversations with Philadelphians interested in current and global affairs. And so we've updated it for use today and cut it down a little bit from its 40 question length, to sort of anchor our Global Cable podcast. So I thought I'd ask you just a few short questions that can have short answers. So you've obviously met, you know, in your years in public affairs and years of politics, you've met just about everybody. Is there anybody working in the world today that you'd like to meet?

John Kerry [00:10:20] Working in the world today? I've met, frankly, most of the people that I want to meet working in the world today. I mean, there's nobody that I'm sort of sitting here and saying,"Oh boy, I really want to meet that person." There are a lot of people I'd love to meet, but not necessarily, you know, in the same way. If you ask me, historically, there are a lot of people I'd love to meet.

John Gans [00:10:46] We'll take a historical answer if you want!

John Kerry [00:10:48] I'd love to meet Jesus Christ. That would be a conversation.

John Gans [00:10:50] I would think so.

John Kerry [00:10:51] It would be really fascinating. There are popes, historically, and leaders. Winston Churchill has always fascinated me. It would at least be a pretty well-greased conversation and a lot of fun. Harry Truman, I think, or Franklin Roosevelt, either one of them. Teddy Roosevelt would be, really, that would be a great meal. I'd love to meet him - the original and a great environmentalist for us. And I mean, a very interesting guy. I mean, there's so many people. Joan of Arc. Yeah. There are people that would really be fascinating to meet under the right circumstances.

John Gans [00:11:40] Is there anything you are sort of -  music article, book - something you've been reading recently?

John Kerry [00:11:45] I've been reading a number of books at the same time. Not a great habit, probably. But How Democracy Dies is really challenging and something that ought to get people cooking right now. New Power is a book about the change in the way we're communicating, and how networks are now engaged more as power bases, rather than a hierarchy. And it's an interesting book. I think those are the two that have been the most intriguing to me.

John Gans [00:12:19] That's great. And then is there anybody out there who you think is doing, you know, working in business, working in NGOs, working on climate change, anything else that you think deserves particular sort of praise?

John Kerry [00:12:32] I think, you know, people like Greta Thunberg and Katie Eder, who is a young woman who's taken a two year gap from going to Stanford to work on the climate strike and climate coalition.  These are folks who are really trying to hold people to account. And I applaud them. I think they're terrific, and we need more of them!

John Gans [00:12:54]  Exactly, and that gets to our last question, which is, is there anything in particular which Penn and Penn students can do to be service to the country and to the world?

John Kerry [00:13:02] Absolutely. Every single one of them, first of all, has to make the commitment to vote. Every single one of your Penn students has got to get engaged somehow in the effort to deal with climate change. You can do it locally. You can do it statewide. You can do it globally. You can do it nationally. There are just all kinds of ways to feed into initiatives. But the biggest initiative is making sure every single politician is, in fact, voting and doing the things necessary to pull us back from the brink. This is the issue of a generation, of all generations. It's the most critical issue of our time, without any doubt whatsoever. It is life and death for all of us, for species, for water, for food, for, you know, the survivability of the human race, ultimately, because life itself is threatened.

I mean, we get 51 percent of our oxygen from oceans - the oceans are threatened. The increased acidification is now changing the chemistry of the ocean more than it has at any time in 50 million years. I mean, these things are scientifically arrived at, and science has been avoided, ignored, distorted, lied about. And we need people whose voices are going to be raised to hold people in public places accountable. That accountability has been absent. You can be a denier about climate in the United States Congress with impunity. We have to take away that impunity. And the way you do it is by voting, making this a voting issue and holding people accountable in our democracy.

John Gans [00:14:47] That's excellent. Thank you so much, Secretary Kerry, for joining us on The Global Cable.

John Kerry [00:14:51] My great privilege. You really got me thinking about who I want to sit with and meet with.